The Red Shed Tapes Podcast, Episode 2 Transcript
Let There be Songs to Fill the Air

SPEAKERS

Shannon McMenamin, Mike McMenamin, Jimi Biron, Scott Avett, Dan McMenamin, Tim Hills

Shannon McMenamin  00:06

You’re listening to The Red Shed Tapes, and I’m your host Shannon McMenamin. Today we’re talking about music, one of my all-time favorite topics. Music has always played a big part in my life, serving as a backdrop for so many memories and punctuating so many moments in time. As a child, there was always music playing. It was Dad playing the Grateful Dead, or my brothers, Dan and Sean, and me rocking out to Boston’s “More Than a Feeling” on repeat. Or making mixtapes from the radio with nothing but a boom box, a cassette and a carefully poised finger to press “record” at the exact moment that my song came on. We used to take these family trips to Tower Records, and Dad would let us explore and take home a few new albums while he picked up piles for the pubs. And he would also take us to so many live shows in our teens. I think he enjoyed them as much as we did.

Mike McMenamin  01:00

What can you say about music? I mean, it’s…it’s such a thing that you have to have in your life. You know that, at least for a lot of people, when you don’t have it, it’s huge.

Shannon McMenamin

That’s my dad, Mike, back in 2020. We had gotten together to talk about the birthday of the Crystal Ballroom. It’s a historic downtown concert venue that my dad and Uncle Brian restored and reopened in 1997. But on this day, it was silent and empty — like every performance space across the world during the pandemic. Perhaps that’s what made my dad so reflective about live music: because there wasn’t any.

Mike McMenamin  01:37

It can show you things you’ve never thought before and take you places you’ve never dreamed of. You know what Garcia said to Yorma Kaukonen one time (the guitarist of Hot Tuna and Jefferson Airplane and was a great guitarist): “You know, there’s lots of holes in the music when you’re playing, and if you fill ’em all, it wrecks it. You got to leave some holes, leave some space, so you can create some drama and create something that really sparks.” I hope we run our company somewhat like that in the music vein.

Shannon McMenamin  02:16

On this episode of The Red Shed Tapes, we give you an inside look at how music has helped shape McMenamins. Up first, you’ll meet Jimi Biron, McMenamins’ music director, and hear about how he and my dad Mike opened the Crystal Ballroom just in time for Portland’s indie rock heyday. My dad Mike weighs in but mostly to talk about the Grateful Dead playing the Crystal Ballroom, which tells you a lot about how the band influenced the company. Then my older brother Dan explains how curating music for our pubs and bars gives the experience resonance. And in the last act, we head out to our podcast namesake, The Red Shed, where Jimi talks to Scott Avett of the Avett Brothers. The two reminisce about the band’s unique origin story and their two decades long relationship with McMenamins. Grab a pint and settle in. We’re taking you down musical hallways and paths of Portland rock ‘n’ roll history. So stick around. I told you before my family loves the Grateful Dead, and my dad has already dropped a Jerry Garcia quote in this episode. But no one outside of our family understands this love more than McMenamins Music Director Jimi Biron.  Mike and Brian are just huge music fans, and it’s always been part of the identity of the company, I think, from the very beginning. In those days, I’d be like, where’s the owners? Oh, they flew to Vegas to see the Dead. And they’ve, from day one, been supportive of music and wanting to promote music: “Where can we do music? Where else can we fit music? What kind of music is going to play in each space?” And in 1995, the space my dad had his eye on was the Crystal Ballroom. For one, it had been an iconic landmark for the city since it opened in 1914, which gave it all sorts of cool history and character. But more importantly, the Grateful Dead had played there in the late ’60s for a live album.

Mike McMenamin  04:10

If you follow the Dead at all, ’68 was one of the years where they just took a monstrous leap from, you know, playing a six- or seven-minute “Dark Star” to a 20-minute “Dark Star.”

Shannon McMenamin 

If you’re not familiar with the band’s catalogue, “Dark Star” is an epic song that bridges different musical genres — jazz jam, psychedelic…

Mike McMenamin  04:29

And, you know, full of all these movements and variations and whatever. You know, a lot of great things happened. When the Dead were here, the final lyrics of “The Other One” were remembered: “Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land.” The lyrics originally were different. During their Great Northwest Tour, that’s when Bob Weir finished the lyrics for that tune. And “China Cat,” “Sunflower,” they played here, which is only like the second time they’d ever played it.

Shannon McMenamin 

My dad says “Dark Star” was an improvisational vehicle for the Grateful Dead, and our pubs and properties are kind of like that for him. Each location is unique, and they can always be improved upon. Case in point: next time you’re dining in Hal’s Cafe at the Crystal Hotel, look up. The “Dark Star” melody has been designed note for note into the stained glass windows. When the light hits just right, you can catch the music dancing in rainbows across your table.

Jimi Biron  05:28

The Grateful Dead played at the Crystal Ballroom in 1968. And Family Dog and all those San Francisco bands would come up, and it was a big part of the history of the room, and I’m sure, a big part of the attraction the room had to your dad in acquiring it and firing it back up.

Shannon McMenamin 

When the Crystal came up for sale, my dad bought it, despite it being a bit of a wreck inside.

Jimi Biron  05:55

It’s just this giant, gorgeous, beautiful space, but it was totally derelict… plaster falling off the walls and the beams, and there had been fire at some point. And it was not very safe to be in here, so we had to all get the hard hats and it was really fun — super exciting.

Shannon McMenamin 

Background: “Good morning! Thanks for calling McMenamins Crystal Hotel [fades out].”

When it comes to our company as it is today, you cannot talk about the Crystal Ballroom without including the nearby Crystal Hotel. In 2011, we opened the Crystal Hotel half a block away from the concert venue. This is where Jimi Biron and I meet up to talk about booking shows and the Portland music scene.

Jimi Biron  06:41

We say, you know, at the Crystal Ballroom, on any night anything can happen.

Shannon McMenamin  06:45

Jimi is an artist and musician who’s been booking music for our company for over two decades now. He’s often rocking a vintage concert t-shirt. And today, it’s Willie Nelson.  How many do you think you have?

Jimi Biron  06:57

I don’t say that many. I have two full crates, so probably 300 t-shirts, and that’s only the best. And I get to pull out a t-shirt from like 25 years ago and wear it to the show.

Shannon McMenamin  07:12

You wear this shirt for the band, to the show? Isn’t that, like, a faux pas? Like, are you not supposed to do that?

Jimi Biron  07:19

I tried wearing a Modest Mouse t-shirt to a Modest Mouse show, and my kids stopped me in my tracks and scolded me and said, “absolutely not allowed to do that, Dad.”

Shannon McMenamin  07:29

You kind of have always been at the Crystal Ballroom from my perspective. I was selling tickets in the box office, I think, when I was probably like 17 years old. But I remember you from those days. We opened February 19th of 1997. And it was just crazy trying to figure out how to launch this thing. For those that don’t know, the Crystal Ballroom is a beautiful, gorgeous old ballroom. It has a capacity of 1,500, and it’s one open floor space with high ceilings, arched windows, gorgeous chandeliers and a floating/bouncing dance floor that makes it incredibly unique. Let me pause for a moment. What Jimi is talking about is the bouncing floor, a true feat of engineering that we’ve preserved and the Crystal Ballroom experience is known for. Our historian Tim Hills fills us in.

Tim Hills  08:23

The original tagline for the Crystal was “dancing on air, dancing on clouds.” The dance floor, it’s an incredibly simple design: Beneath this entire floor are rows and rows and rows of rockers, like on the bottom of a rocking chair. And at each end of each rocker is a ball bearing. When you get a whole crowd of people dancing on the floor, especially if it’s a dance where everyone’s doing the same steps at the same time and swaying in the same ways, the floor just kind of goes with you and maybe helps you do that. It was ingenious.

Jimi Biron  09:11

The Crystal had already been such a great music hall with Van Morrison or Buffalo Springfield, Grateful Dead, James Brown, Ike and Tina — all the great history, and so, we really had to do it right and honor it and make sure that we brought it back as it deserved to be. It was a slow burn, but we finally started to enlist some of the strong locals for our opening weeks. We had every band that I’d worked with previously at Edgefield — or wherever we could get them — bands like Higher Ground or Satan’s Pilgrims or Dead Moon. And it was great because these are bands that would maybe only do a couple hundred tickets, and they were doing like 800 or 1,000 tickets at the Crystal. The community was so excited to have the place open that it was, you know, this little honeymoon where — wow! — people were coming in droves to this wonderful place.

Shannon McMenamin  10:17

What was the Portland music scene like right around that time?

Jimi Biron  10:22

I don’t think the word “indie rock” existed. It was the beginning of it. So we had Heatmiser, Hazel, Sprinkler. I had been in a band called Flounder that played with all these groups. And it wasn’t grunge; it wasn’t anything that was going on in Seattle; it was different. It wasn’t quite punk rock; it was evolving into songwriting and melodies, you know, what we now refer to as as indie rock. But these bands were just all popping up at X-ray or Satyricon. And then at the time, La Luna [Shannon: That was where I saw all the shows.] was the big venue, and you’d see Beck or Radiohead or Bob Mould at La Luna. They were the big game in town; we were trying to open and trying to compete.

Shannon McMenamin  11:15

Well, their size is a little bit different, though, than the Crystal, right?

Jimi Biron  11:19

Roseland, La Luna and Crystal, we’re all the same size. So we came out, we had three venues that were trying and we didn’t have near the music scene that we do now, we didn’t have near the population. And so, it was difficult. And we talked with all the different venues, and we talked about trying to carve up the pie, you know: “Hey, we’re McMenamins and we love the Grateful Dead, and we could do you know, all these great jam bands and this kind of community space, and you guys can do the, the Radioheads and the Social Distortions,” and everyone just laughed. It’s like, “We’re gonna do every show, Jimi, we don’t care. We’re gonna do all the shows, and you’re not gonna get any.” And so, there were, there was a couple challenges thrown, and I think, for my story, I think that’s what really got me motivated. So, I reached out to somebody named Calvin Johnson, who owned K Records, and I just said, “Hey, we’ve got this great place, and we’d love to have you involved.” And, you know, I really have to credit a lot of our success to him because he was so welcoming and immediately introduced me to everybody and really told everybody the Crystal is the place you should play. And I got a call for Built to Spill, and I couldn’t believe it. And then, once Built to Spill played, then, so did Sleater Kinney, Quasi, and then Modest Mouse played. And then I think it was July of ’99, we had Pavement, and it was, I think, their last show before they broke up. And that was kind of it. We were the cool venue from that point on. Modest Mouse has the record for most shows, most tickets. They played four nights, sold out, added a fifth, a fifth night. Show’s over. Everybody’s cheering for the encore, “Encore, encore, encore!” Isaac comes out on the stage, he puts down a chair. He sits down on the chair, and he gets a haircut. People were furious. I thought it was the greatest thing ever — performance art. It was amazing. He sat there, got a haircut, and that was the end of it. It was great.

Shannon McMenamin  13:58

So how did you end up in Portland? And how did you get into the music scene so quickly?

Jimi Biron  14:02

I’d moved here in a band. When I got to Portland, I was looking for a place called the Ooze, which was like the record store. And I found it, and I met a woman named Janelle. She said, “Why don’t you come down to this place called the X-ray Cafe.” My first night in town; it was excellent. And then Ted, who was in Cracker Bash and later in Satan’s Pilgrims, was a college mate of mine, a very good friend, and he introduces me to Scott Fox, who’s the bass player for Cracker Bash, and my first day I meet him at Tavern and Pool. Scott’s like, have a Terminator and a french fries and come work for McMenamins, and I was like great. What is this? I can’t even see through it. This beer was black. I had never seen anything like it. But it was awesome, And so I applied and I got brought in.  And welcomed to McMenamins.

Shannon McMenamin  15:05

Wow, so even your friend Scott worked at McMenamins at the time.

Jimi Biron  15:09

It’s neat. Yeah.

Shannon McMenamin  15:10

I want to take this full circle, back to Edgefield and the Red Shed where you were booking some of your earliest shows with McMenamins while you were also working the bar. Small world.

Jimi Biron  16:13

The Red Shed, one of the most magical places anywhere. We opened it up and put in a bar, and one of my jobs was to book music outside, so the first concerts, our first big concerts on the lawn were actually little concerts at the Little Red Shed. And I had an opportunity to work with so many of the bands that I already knew and discover a lot of other bands and put on these really wonderful, free concerts on Thursday nights out at Edgefield on the lawn. You know, some of those bands grew or evolved and ended up playing at the Crystal when we finally opened the Crystal.

Shannon McMenamin  16:14

So we’re here in the Crystal Hotel. Yes. So when we’re going to open the Crystal Hotel, it seemed obvious that we were going to name every room after a band, and your dad gave me that look that he tends to give that is…exactly. Shannon’s lowering her glasses a little bit. “No, no, no, Jimi, that’s too simple, too direct, too direct. Every room needs to be a song title, a song that was performed at the Crystal from a band at the Crystal.” And that’s, of course, brilliant, and it makes it so much more subtle, and it gives you reasons to go down the rabbit hole, and it gives you more things to think about and contemplate. So, we’re a beverage company, a hotel company; Merle Haggard was one of the great legendary artists that played the Crystal: “Let’s Just Sit Here and Drink.” All right, sounds like a good room name. Maybe a little more risque, things that might take place in hotel rooms: Modest Mouse, “Paper Thin Walls.” All right, that’s a little funny. What’s nice and cozy? “Cocoon” for the Decemberists. So, we really tried to come up with names that would be appealing as a hotel room that you’d want to stay in. Jimi and I stepped away from our conversation to walk up and down the hotel hallways, so he could point out the artwork.

Jimi Biron  17:45

We’re here on the third floor at a couple of the corner suites at the intersection of Sleater Kinney “Let’s Call It Love” and the Arcade Fire “Wake Up.”

Shannon McMenamin  17:56

There are bands honored in murals and song lyrics painted on the walls, dancing around the corners. You get the feeling these shows were legendary. We’re in the Arcade Fire room now. The Arcade Fire played the Crystal on their 2005 Funeral tour. That night, they took their encore off the stage with their instruments through the crowd and down three flights of stairs and all the way outside onto Burnside Street. The audience spilled out around them. And even the police jumped in to stop traffic so the band could keep playing.

Jimi Biron  18:28

Where we have a lovely panel of Arcade Fire performing out on the corner of 14th and Burnside, as they did on one of the most memorable nights of the history of the Crystal Ballroom.

Shannon McMenamin  18:46

I notice Jimi linger on the lyrics painted on the wall.

Jimi Biron  18:50

I love that song. I just…it’s, it’s such an emotional song. “Something filled up my heart with nothing. Someone told me not to cry. Now that I’m older, my heart’s colder.” I love it. Love it.

Shannon McMenamin  19:11

Did you ever imagine that 25 years later, you’d be doing what you’re doing now?

Jimi Biron  19:15

I mean, in a way, it seems like I’ve been doing the same thing forever. It seems like I’m still doing exactly what I was doing then. I never could have imagined the scope, the size of the venues, the amount of the shows, where we grew as a company in our music…

Shannon McMenamin 

Well, you’ve been a huge part of it.

Jimi Biron  19:40

Your dad always says we’re the steward. You know, it’s not our Crystal Ballroom. We’re just fortunate that we’re the operators at this point in history, in this era, at this moment in time.

Shannon McMenamin  19:54

You may have wondered if my dad’s dream to have the Dead play the Crystal again ever came true. Well, in 2008, Phil Lesh — the bass guitarist for the Dead — and friends, played at the Crystal Ballroom and paid tribute to the Dead’s 1968 shows by performing many of the same songs. Even better, he returned for the 50th anniversary of those shows literally to the day, playing two sets at the Crystal in February 2018. If you take a look at our music calendar, you’ll see we have lots of live music booked — literally hundreds of concerts every month across our properties, from Old St. Francis School in Bend, Oregon to Anderson School in Bothell, Washington. And then there’s our dedicated music venues. In Portland, our Mission Theater is known for hosting on-the-rise touring artists. Even Adele famously performed there in 2008, when she was just 20 years old, and no one in town knew who she was yet. The White Eagle welcomes favorite Northwest bands, as well as seasoned touring artists. And Al’s Den showcases intimate sets of music and comedy. We have two concert halls, the Crystal Ballroom we’ve talked about, and the Spanish Ballroom up in Tacoma, Washington, while the bigger acts play Edgefield Concerts on the Lawn and Grand Lodge Concerts in the Grove.

Dan McMenamin  21:26

Music is one of the pillars of what we do. It’s in the art, it’s in the spaces, it’s in the air — you can feel it. We have tons of artists and musicians that work for us, work with us, work around us. It’s been one of the biggest parts of the company inspiration in getting to this point.

Shannon McMenamin 

That’s my brother Dan, recorded in the Cypress Room at Kennedy School. He was the first of us kids to come work for the company. He’s part of the family leadership team along with me, my brother Sean, and cousin Connors. We were all bit by the music bug, but here’s Dan’s story…

Dan McMenamin  21:58

The first legit show would have been the Daddies and Fishbone at the Melody Ballroom. Three or four hundred people, and Angelo Moore from Fishbone was standing right in front of us. And he had this titanic reefer in his mouth, like this big joint thing was falling apart and ashing everywhere, and he was cheering on the Daddies the whole time. But I’m tapping Dad ’cause Dad’s there, [whispering], “Angelo’s right there. And he’s standing right in front of us.” And he’s like, “You should say hi to him.” I’m like, “No way. [Shannon, laughing: “You should say hi to him!”] No way am I talking to that guy.” They played, and then Fishbone came on, and it was the Give a Monkey a Brain and He’ll Swear He’s the Center of the Universe tour, album, which I think came out in like, 1992… The first one they played was Swim, which was sort of almost like a grunge-esque song, a real slow chunky song. [Shannon: A mosh pit anthem.] And they do it — when the swim pit first started that they kind of got that going. They started the whole big swim thing, and I got sucked into it, and I made like two laps around the room. It’s like just in like a threshing bodies, like, you know, sweaty, stinky, and I was like, “What’s going on?” Oh, yeah. But it was super cool. And the light bulb went off. And I was like, “This is what I want to do.”

Shannon McMenamin  23:07

Today, the custom playlists you hear at our 40 plus pubs are curated and selected by Dan; they set the vibe and enrich the experience.

Dan McMenamin  23:16

I try to help guide integration of music. I try to help put together programs that would allow people to enjoy a space without taking them out of the space. And I think the stuff that I’m most involved with is sort of like how do you set that sense for that space? Do you have a playlist you put together or curating some sort of set and you want to have a vibe or a feeling or something that sort of complements the space as it’s sort of put together and vice versa.

Shannon McMenamin  23:47

Music isn’t the only thing he does. It’s a family business, and we all wear many hats. So Dan is a part of the gardening, spirits, coffee and food programs. Also, Dan makes a mean cocktail, which actually inspires his music choices.

Dan McMenamin  24:04

I open up the cabinet, and I look at what I have, and I’ll start opening up bottles and I’ll start smelling them. So [unintelligible] I’ll start smelling the different flavors and like “Okay, I like these, I’ll put them over here. And this is complementary. And I’ll put this over here.” And then I’ll put them together. So then I’m just trying to figure out what flavors I want. I’ll use a similar thought if I’m going to put together a playlist because I’m like, “Okay, what am I kind of feeling like I want to do? That sounds kind of good. I’m gonna do some of that. And then okay, what would complement this?” and that sort of gets you on that road. So maybe, I would try to maybe find like an overall anchor band that would be sort of like the starting point. It’s like, you know, I really feel like listening to the Clash tonight. Hey, now I’m going to do some other types of world music that was inspired by the Clash and things that maybe came before and then I started to put that together and layer it going forward.

Shannon McMenamin  24:51

I mean, it’s pretty incredible, the amount of management that goes into it. All of it should be kind of random, right? The playlists are similar, but they’re not all the same.

Dan McMenamin  24:59

Yeah, a world traveler bar like the Old Hangout, or Nui Nui up at Anderson School and you’d want to have elements of surf and jazz that bring in multi instruments, just some soul and some R&B. And so things that kind of fit a vibe you’re looking for, a feeling when you go and eat there. You have Ringlers, which is sort of downtown. It’s a little gritty, and so you want some punk kind of mix in there, you want to kind of maybe little garage type stuff, maybe you have a little bit of fuzz rock. And so sort of purely based on, you know… We’re not purely based on anything, I suppose, but it’s really just what is going on there. And what was it going to feel like when you go in there and was in sound like, and sometimes it takes some experimentation; you gotta try some stuff and see what works. I mean, I did put in “The Wizard,” from the first Black Sabbath album in the playlist for the company, and I think I heard it OSF once and I watched some dude just rock out at his table. He was so stoked it was on at dinner. And then the next day Dad called and was like, “Hey, I think there’s a Black Sabbath song in the mix.” And I was like, “Yeah,” and he goes, “Yeah, I think, I don’t think that should be in there.”  “Okay,” you know, and so I took it out.

Shannon McMenamin  26:11

It’s a living thing, though. I mean, it’s like constantly evolving and constantly being tinkered with. Speaking of constantly evolving, a layer we’ve added to a few of our small bars, are record players.

Dan McMenamin  26:23

We’ve been doing it here in the Cyprus Room; we’ve been doing it at Pat’s Corner for a few years. We’ve added it to two more bars at the Grand Lodge; they each have different collections: Pat’s is a little more rock and roll, Bob’s has got some folk, and some sort of alternative-ish kind of genre, to not too specific because it definitely sort of tailored to the person or inspiration for that location. Billy Scott has sort of this jazz influence. We have the Undercroft Bar, which is the bar under the church in Wilsonville. It has the blues. Blues is historically associated with that [unintelligible], you’ve got the mythology, you know, maybe of the devil. Why wouldn’t you you have blues underneath a church? And blues is excellent music to have a drink to. Analog, something you can touch. There is a liner note, there’s pictures of the band sometimes, there’s notes about who recorded it, but what’s great about analog, particularly vinyl, is you get the gatefold, you get more stuff inside, sometimes they tuck little goodies in there. The actual vinyl pressing itself has different weights, color, styles. All of those things are part of the ritual of listening to music — the more of that you can have, the better the experience will be.  We worked with Terry Currier, who’s the owner of Music Millennium who is a wonderful person and knows music — like really knows music. Music Millennium in Portland, Oregon is an independent music store. It’s been there for, I want to say at least 30 years; it’s on the list if you come to Portland; it should be. When we were going through the process, I would just sort of go to him saying, “Terry I need like, you know, 30 really good blues records in the vein of,” and I would say a couple artists, and he’d be like “I got it.” And then he’d just pulled them and put it together, and he’d bring in good pressings and different recordings. And it’s a program that would like to see a little more advanced, but it really works ideally in a small bar with like a one-bartender operator. So there was the idea of resonance to me. I’m like, “Well, that’s what it is.” People talk about vibrating and the vibe. It’s the resonance. It’s the resonation of a string or a drum or something solid that resonates and makes music. That’s what your ears pick up. That’s what gets things happening.

Shannon McMenamin  28:50

I’ve been very lucky to see some extraordinary bands through our family venues. On my last day as the hotel manager at the Grand Lodge, I had the joy of discovering the Avett Brothers. There were about 100 of us there. Jump forward 20 years: the band is playing a sold-out concert — Edgefield’s biggest show of the year. There’s a magic in being a part of a band’s evolution and building a relationship as we go. Jimi Biron, who you met earlier in the episode, got to sit down with Scott Avett at the Red Shed before their show. It was a beautiful day at Edgefield.

Scott Avett  29:28

I remember this place. I remember coming over here. This place is legendary.

Jimi Biron  29:34

I can see the stage from where I’m sitting here in the in the shed out the window. The concert is going to start in about three or four hours. And Scott was gracious enough to walk from backstage and kind of trek across the property. On a normal day you’d see the Red Shed plain and center, but on a concert day it’s hidden and tucked away behind the merch tent. So, kind of found this little hidden gem and was kind enough to talk to me and tell us about his experience and his history with McMenamins

Scott Avett  30:08

One, two, check, check. I am Scott Avett. I am one of the Avett Brothers. I’m from Concord, North Carolina. And I’m an artist and happy to be here.

Jimi Biron  30:21

Well, thanks, Scott, appreciate it. Do you remember that very first kind of short notice right after Pickathon? You guys were just like, sweet, nice to meet, and we we figured out the show just like two days later, three days later on a Tuesday, in Lola’s Room. It sold out. I mean, just like word of mouth pretty much right away. And so that was like, wow, that was what kind of inspired me to invite you to the tour.

Shannon McMenamin  30:50

Jimi is talking about the Great Northwest Music Tour, which is the title on the poster from 1968 for the tour where the Dead played the Crystal Ballroom, Seattle and Vancouver BC. My dad loved it when the Dead would play multiple nights in a location and really enjoyed following the band from place to place. So we figured we could do this at our own locations too, giving bands regional exposure.

Scott Avett  31:14

I just remember great energy, excitement, enthusiasm among people. I remember our energy was, you know, there was no end to it, anyway. We were ready to go. “Yes,” was the answer whenever people asked. We didn’t know any any better. We didn’t need to know any better.

Jimi Biron  31:30

The energy that you guys brought, the banjo flying through the air, I mean, all that the stomping… I had never seen anything like that. It’s like, it’s like punk rock and heavy metal and everything all wound into one.

Scott Avett  31:45

Just the Northwest in general, but Oregon specifically and McMenamins specifically, really was a moment of affirmation for us. We needed those. Everybody, all humans need every once a while for someone to say “Hey, you know, you’re worth it. Keep going. This is worth doing. You’re doing great. You belong here.” And we’ve been coming back since.

Jimi Biron  32:08

Great Northwest Music Tour, for those that don’t know, is a, is a tour that we would bring, you know, our favorite bands around; we’d take them to every McMenamins hotel. You’re literally playing in like a lobby, in a little event room; it’s really small. And the little communities would just love having artists come because they get exposed to great talent in a market that normally doesn’t get it.

Scott Avett  32:34

For people to go shorter distances and touch people in a longer conversation — a conversation that spans more than a night and then you’re gone back to the next major market — is so healthy. It’s kind of the model that I would explain to someone on how something catches fire.

Jimi Biron  32:55

Every night was getting bigger, and everybody was talking, and the energy that you brought was just contagious.

Scott Avett  33:01

Both ways. I had never seen anything like it either. And I can’t pretend to know what in the world we were doing. There was, there was no… You can talk about it like there was some type of design from us, and there just wasn’t.  We were just, we were just doing. I’m always talking about McMenamins and Edgefield in particular; it’s really awesome. I mean, it lives with us forever. The relationship with you guys, it’s like a house: the longer we live in our homes, let’s face it, the better they get. This is a great home, Edgefield.

Jimi Biron  33:34

I remember being up at the top of property and talking to you and I don’t know where you were, and I’m looking down. We’re getting ready to do Edgefield Concerts again — this is a long, long time ago. I’m like you’re gonna be here dude! And I don’t know, you’re probably like, “whatever, Jimi.” Or maybe you knew it. Maybe it’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah!

Scott Avett  33:53

Well, I trusted you. I trust you. When someone like you would say that I would, I would trust it. And I’d be careful not to say something cocky like, well, of course, we will be.

Jimi Biron  34:05

And you know, you guys were the only band to ever do the tour and the Crystal Ballroom.

Scott Avett  34:11

Playing Crystal Ballroom for 1,500 was like, whatever above this is icing on the cake. Like, it’s not even a way to even think anymore. It’s like… But I will say if you know that far away during the Great Northwest Tour you’re able to generate that many people, you’re going, “Okay, I don’t know about ‘making it,’ but I know it’s worth going back.” And then there’s people waiting to see us in the morning? It’s like, that’s incredible. I mean, how many bands even get to play for 20 years? There’s not many. This is a big part of our DNA. This is a big part of that learning who we are in that process. Very blessed.

Shannon McMenamin  34:55

It was really hard to figure out how to wrap up this episode. It’s that music is just so much. It’s all of our places. It’s the playlists, it’s the live shows, it’s the bands. It’s those memories. It’s inside, it’s outside, it’s written on the walls. And it’s just so much a part of who we are and what we do and how we view things. So ultimately, we ended up going back to the interview at the Crystal Ballroom during the pandemic. And we found a passage of my dad talking, and it pretty much sums it up.

Mike McMenamin  35:37

Every note you play, you try to have it mean something, you know, and if you are just playing thousands of notes, you just are playing thousands of notes, you know. But if you take your time and you’re, you know, playing each note and thinking about it, putting some feeling into it, that’s a whole different level. And that’s what we try to do when we’re designing a place. You make each space count. I think that’s how music spills over to us. It’s something to aspire to: make every, every “note” or make every decision count.

Shannon McMenamin  36:12

Thanks to all our guests in the episode, with a special thanks to Scott Avett and the Avett Brothers team for squeezing in an interview before their big Edgefield show. It meant a lot. I’m Shannon McMenamin. Thank you for joining me for The Red Shed Tapes.

Gretchen Kilby  36:28

The Red Shed Tapes is lovingly produced by McMenamins and their production partner Maxwell, an independent creative agency. This episode was recorded and edited by Gretchen Kilby, who has bounced on the Crystal Ballroom floor to the Thievery Corporation. Jess Lyness is our writer. She has bragging rights for being at the famous Crystal Arcade Fire show. Also a shoutout to podcast host Shannon McMenamin and McMenamins’ Renee rank Ignacio and Kat Nyberg, who have lost count of all the amazing Crystal shows they’ve seen. And Kat is also responsible for the archival video and audio used in this episode. The podcast theme music was written by our friends Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk at Wonderly. Thanks also to all our listeners and supporters. Learn more about The Red Shed Tapes and McMenamins at mcmenamins.com. And a quick note before we go, for those wondering when the next episode is coming out: We’re recording these one at a time and publishing every couple of months. So make sure to check back and follow us on social to never miss an announcement. We’re working on more stories right now.