The Red Shed Tapes, B-side: Episode 6 Podcast Kathleen Marden Presents the Alien Abduction Case of Betty & Barney Hill

Speakers: Shannon McMenamin, Kathleen Marden, Tim Hills

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This episode is a Red Shed Tapes: B-side, where we press “play” on stories and conversations from McMenamins’ vault of recordings and interviews from the last 40-plus years.

Shannon McMenamin  00:14

You’re listening to The Red Shed Tapes: B-side, and I’m your host Shannon McMenamin.

We’re continuing our special 3-part series in celebration of the 25th anniversary of McMenamins’ UFO Festival, which takes place every May at our Hotel Oregon in McMinnville. 

In the last episode, you heard how our pub, brewery and hotel business ended up throwing the second biggest annual UFO festival in the country. 

You also got a front row seat to a rare public appearance of Navy Commander David Fravor at our 2019 festival. He gave a fascinating play-by-play of his incredible sighting of the “Tic Tac UFO” on a Navy training flight in 2004.  

Today we travel back to UFO Fest 2015 for a different kind of eyewitness account.  

00:58 [Archival audio] Kathleen Marden 

There was a disc-shaped craft.  And as he held the binoculars up to his eyes, looking down at him were individuals that he described as being somehow not-human.

Shannon McMenamin (1:14): Grab a pint and settle in!

[Archival audio of McMenamins Historian Tim Hills welcoming audience to UFO Fest]

Shannon McMenamin (1:38)

Sometimes people come to UFO Fest because they’ve seen or experienced things they can’t explain. They meet others while standing in line for a beer or sitting in the speaker auditorium. They swap stories, they hear from presenters with familiar experiences – in short, they find a community. 

Frequent festival attendees will recognize author Kathleen Marden. She has spoken at numerous UFO Fests and is an ET contact researcher and advocate for abductees. In this B-side episode, she details the astounding experience of her aunt and uncle, Betty and Barney Hill, who believed they encountered extraterrestrials in 1961.  

She heard about many of their experiences first-hand. The timeline and evidence that Kathleen describes may just make you think twice about what’s possible.

A quick note: Kathleen’s presentation included slides that she references during her talk. You can check them out on McMenamins’ blog and on our YouTube channel.

Here’s Kathleen Marden, presenting at McMenamins UFO Fest in 2015.

Kathleen Marden 

(2:40) Thank you very much. Well, today I’m going to be speaking about the evidence of ET contact, and what I wanted to impart to you is what I look for when I investigate a case of ET contact or alien abduction, and I have been interviewed many, many times, and sometimes a skeptical interviewer will say to me, “Well, there is no evidence.” And I’ll say, “Well, what kind of evidence are you looking for? What is your standard of evidence?” And I’m always told that one piece of evidence, that one thing: “You need to produce the dead body of an alien, and even better: it needs to be examined by the National Academy of Sciences, and needs to be declared from outside this earth.” Well, we all know that if that happens, I wouldn’t have that body, and you wouldn’t hear about it. Anybody who had seen it, would be told that they had never seen that, and if they ever spoke about it, something mad might happen to them or to their family.

(4:10) What we as investigators in the Mutual UFO Network look for in terms of evidence is more like forensic evidence, and it is the weight of the evidence that counts. Not one particular piece of evidence. 

Today I’m going to talk to you about the case of my aunt and uncle, Betty and Barney Hill. If you don’t know their background, Betty was a social worker for the state of New Hampshire. Barney worked for the post office, but they were both very politically active. The records show that they had no interest in UFOs prior to this event, although my mother had had a close encounter in the late 1950s; she had mentioned it to Betty. I didn’t know about it. Barney was there. Barney said, ”There’s no such thing. It couldn’t have happened.” So he didn’t believe it. 

We were a very politically oriented family. We had no real interest in UFOs. I had never even heard the word flying saucer, I don’t think, before September 20, 1961 when Betty called my mother and told her that she and my uncle had had a close encounter with a flying saucer the previous evening.

(5:44) What you’ll see in the center painting here, this was done by David Baker, who was a New Hampshire artist. Barney was under hypnosis with Dr Simon, and Dr Simon asked him to describe these ETs. This is similar to Barney’s description, but it is not exact. Because David Baker used his knowledge of human anatomy, they were not exactly what Barney described. For example, he said that they had very large pupils and that there was a little bit of yellow he could see around the outside of their eyes. You can see the eyes as somewhat different than the way Barney described them. And Betty and Barney both said they reminded them of cats’ eyes. They fluoresced in the night sky during the darkness, you could see this fluorescence, the shining on their eyes.

And then you can see Captured, the book that Stanton Friedman and I wrote. I had researched that case for many, many years before I wrote that book.  When I started to research and write, I intended to write Betty’s biography, but I found so much information that had never been released to the public that instead of becoming a biography, I ended up writing a case study of Betty’s and Barney’s event.

(7:21) So, briefly, they [Betty and Barney Hill] were traveling through northern New Hampshire on the evening of September 19, 1961. They’d been to Niagara Falls and on to Montreal the following day to visit Montreal, and decided to drive home that night. And as they were passing through northern New Hampshire, they stopped at Colebrook for a little snack. They traveled south and right about Lancaster, New Hampshire, just about five miles south of there, Betty spotted a new light in the sky. It was a light, bright night. There was a waxing gibbous moon. She continued to watch it, and it was growing larger and larger in the sky. They stopped for the first time right here at Twin Mountain, at the Mount Cleveland picnic area, and got out of the car and looked at it, got back in, and they stopped again at the Old Man of the Mountain right about here in Franconia Notch. And this is where they got a much closer look at this thing in the sky.

(8:38) The next stop was in North Lincoln. They were forced to stop there. They hadn’t intended to. Barney was maybe looking around for a place where he could get another look at this because Betty was becoming excited. It was closing in and coming much closer; but it hovered over their vehicle at this point, at about 200 feet above their car. Barney stopped the car in the middle of the road. He got out of the car, and he walked into an adjacent field, following this craft that had shifted location. There was a disc-shaped craft; he said it reminded him of a huge pancake, silent, just hovering there in the sky. And there was a lighted row of windows along the forward edge. There was an intense blue white light shining from those windows, and as he held the binoculars up to his eyes, looking down at him were individuals that he described as being somehow not human. 

All of a sudden and with military precision, all but one turned and walked to what appeared to be a panel on the back of this corridor. At this point, he could see them from the tops of their heads all the way down to their knees, and their arms went up in the air. And when this happened, there were little fin-like structures that started to come out of the sides of this craft, and they had a red light on the end, and something started to drop down out of the bottom of this craft.

(10:24) Barney, at that point, became terrified. He had the impression that he was going to be captured like, “A bug in a net.” He pulled those binoculars down away from his eyes, running back to the car screaming to Betty, that they had to get out of there or they were going to be captured. 

He went speeding down the highway, but as he ran to the car, he noticed that the craft was following him. He told Betty to roll down the window and look up to see if she could see this thing. She was looking for lights. She rolled down the window; she didn’t see lights. All she saw was blackness. She rolled the window up and she said, “I think it’s gone.” And then, almost immediately, she and Barney heard a series of buzzing sounds, and they were code-like and they seemed to be striking the trunk of the car. As they went speeding down the highway, they started to feel a vibration passing through their bodies, and the car was vibrating; and the next thing they knew, they were 35 miles down the road, and they heard another series of these buzzing sounds. Betty, again, rolled down the window. She looked up, she didn’t see the craft. 

Barney said, “there’s no such thing as flying saucers, Betty. I think I can make that sound.” He stopped the car. He drove it from one side of the road to the other side of the road trying to create that sound, and he couldn’t. They then drove home down this route right here, over to Concord, and then on Route 4 to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and that’s where their home was. And when they arrived home, there were things that they simply could not explain. They were later than they had anticipated. Two months later, they discovered it with a full two hours; and there was other evidence that we will talk about as we go on in this presentation.

(12:44) Well, one of the first things that I look for when I do an investigation is the credibility of the witness. Is this someone that I can believe? Is this someone who has reached a level of success in their lives based upon their education and their level of intelligence? Or is this someone who might be looking for attention? Is it someone who might be making up a story because they’ve never succeeded at anything they did in their lives, and maybe this will be their huge success? And I have investigated cases like that that ended up being hoaxes, and I have exposed these hoaxes, but I don’t talk about this publicly. I’m not a mean person. I just don’t mention it again. So that is something that’s very, very important. Is this an individual who is an experienced observer? You certainly could believe Edgar Mitchell over the town drunk who was out in the backyard getting ready to pass out. Those things are very, very important.  And some of the cases that I investigate end up being cases of mental illness, and I don’t blame them for thinking that this had happened. They’re delusional, but it’s something that you generally don’t hear about.

(14:18) Betty and Barney were two credible witnesses. They were very active in politics in the state of New Hampshire. They had promoted voters rights at that time you had to take a literacy test, and they were part of a reading program so that people would be able to pass the literacy test, so that they would have the right to vote in the state of New Hampshire. Betty and Barney were instrumental in setting up the Rockingham County Community Action Program through the US Office of Economic Opportunity. And what you see here is a newspaper article; that Portsmouth man who was cited for serving the state and the nation was Barney Hill, and he was given an award by Sergeant Shriver. What you see here is Barney’s appointment to the US Civil Rights Commission for his work in civil rights in the state of New Hampshire and Valerie Cunningham, who was an African-American historian, made the statement about Barney: “Barney was fearless and outspoken.” That’s the kind of person that Barney Hill was. 

Betty and Barney underwent psychological testing. Betty tested normal, but she was more independent and energetic and poised than most individuals. And Barney tested normal, but with strong intellectual talents. His IQ was 140. And they were both independent thinkers dedicated to finding the truth. Betty also was given a polygraph examination. This was on the F. Lee Bailey lie detector show. She was given this examination by the head of the American Polygraph Society; Barney was deceased by then. He died in 1969 at age 46 from a massive cerebral hemorrhage. But Betty took the test and passed it without sign of deception.

(16:28) Well, can we trust polygraph exams? Some people say no, especially the skeptics. I’ve discussed this with polygraph examiners, and what I’ve learned is they can affect the outcome of a polygraph exam in the way that they administer it. If they do it correctly, then they might get pretty good results. But it still isn’t 100% proof. A career criminal, someone who is a sociopath, who can lie without perspiring, whose heart rate won’t increase when they tell a lie, might pass the exam, even though they’re lying. And sometimes an honest person who is very traumatized by an event will fail a polygraph exam because their heart is racing, because they’re perspiring as they relive this event in taking the polygraph exam.  One case, one abduction case, stands out in my mind as being a very good case for a polygraph examination, because there were multiple witnesses, and although the evidence was inconclusive on two of those individuals in the very beginning, after this, all seven people passed this polygraph exam, and that is in the case of Travis Walton. That is a huge piece of evidence in his case.

(18:07) So what is the evidence in the Hill case? This is some of the evidence that they found. Initially, their watches had stopped running and never ran again. When Barney took his shoes off when he arrived home on the morning of September 20, they were so deeply scraped that he had to wear them for yard work after that. Barney was a meticulous dresser. He had no prosaic explanation for how that had occurred, riding in the vehicle and just getting out to go to a restaurant, getting out to do some sightseeing, getting out to look up at this craft in the sky. The dress that Betty had been wearing was torn in several locations. There was a tear from waist to hemline on one side; the hem was torn down. There was a two-inch tear in the thick zipper fabric, here, out of her zipper. And also you can see this little bit of her zipper sticking out. There was a one-inch tear in the thick zipper fabric. It was in perfectly fine condition when she put it on on the morning of September, 19. This is the condition it was in when she took it off on the morning of September 20.

(19:34) And Betty called my mother. She was very upset because that UFO was so close it was hanging right overhead. Maybe she and Barney had been contaminated. They took long showers. My mother said, “Well, I’ll ask our neighbor.” We have a neighbor who is a physicist, and my mother called him. And so my mother called Betty back with advice, and what he said had nothing to do with radiation. He said, “Well, if Betty has a compass, tell her to take the compass out and hold it near the car to see how it reacts.” That was measuring magnetic fields, not radiation.

She did find a compass. She took it out, and when she got to the car, she noticed spots like this that were on the trunk of the car. I saw these spots myself. They were shiny. They were all about the same size. And when she held the compass over the trunk of the car, the needle would spin and spin. And Barney tried that as well, and the needle would spin and spin; they had the same results. We have seen this in other cases of alien abduction. The most recent that I’m aware of is in the case of Matthew Reed. He was abducted from Indiana in 2009; there was a strong magnetic field around the trunk of his car. You may be aware of his case because he is the brother of Thomas Reed, who spoke at one of these conferences a few years ago. They were taken for the first time from Massachusetts when they were children. Their mother had actually been taken from the Allagash when she was 16 years old, and I have written about this in The Alien Abduction Files.

(21:37)  Betty and Barney had conscious recall of an event, and that is also evidence; we have two witnesses who have the same conscious recall of an event. These aren’t people who just simply saw a light in the sky, went home, had some dreams and then decided that they had been abducted. These are people who made a report to the Air Force. These are people who wrote a letter to the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, because Betty had gone to the library to learn more about this topic.

She’d taken out a book, and Donald Kehoe had written that book. He was the director of NICAP. He appointed Walter Webb. Who was Walter Webb? He was an astronomer. He worked at the Hayden Planetarium. He had worked on the satellite tracking system with Dr Allen Hynek from Blue Book. It was he who investigated Betty’s and Barney’s case initially. 

And so what we have here on this side is one page from Walter’s report. It was a confidential report, but obviously it’s no longer confidential, and what I want to read to you is just a few lines from that report. This is what Walter wrote. He stated about Barney’s memory – and this was on October 26, 1961 that he wrote this. He had interviewed them for eight hours on October 21. His report said, in part, “The approaching UFO finally filled up the entire field of the binoculars. The leader at the window held a special attraction for the witness and frightened him terribly. The witness said he could almost feel this figure’s intense concentration to do something to carry out a plan. Mr. Hill believed that he was going to be captured like, quote, a bug in a net. That is when he knew it was no conventional aircraft he was observing, but something alien and unearthly, containing beings of a superior type – beings that were somehow not human.” 

This is evidence that Betty and Barney remembered their event, and that Barney remembered observing non-humans on that craft. It was conscious, continuous recall. It was not brought out for the first time by Dr Simon under hypnosis in 1964, as you’ve probably read and been told over and over again.

(24:36) Betty and Barney also sat down and they sketched what they had observed that night. This is Barney’s sketch. You can see the figures. This is when it hovered about 200 feet above the vehicle. This is what it looked like when it went into the field. He drew those a little too long, but this is what he looked up at. Betty was seated in the passenger seat of the car. She didn’t have the binoculars at that point. She later said that she saw the windows, but she didn’t sketch the windows here. And this is the Air Force’s report. That is actually their radar report, because they picked something up on radar at 2 o’clock in the morning that same morning when [the Hills] were either aboard the UFO or had been released.

There was also an Air Force Blue Book report, a radar report from the north Concord, Vermont radar station, and they had picked up something earlier in the evening, something very large, that was moving against the air current, against the wind. This is what Project Blue Book ended up stating; they said, “Radar and visual sightings are probably due to conditions resulting from a strong inversion in the area.”  During my investigation, I wanted to know if that was true. I knew that the Air Force explained away UFOs as temperature inversions over and over and over again, so I asked an individual who was a veteran meteorologist to go into the US Weather Service’s archives to check the weather that night in that area and let me know. Not only did he do that, two of his colleagues did that independently, and they got back to me with this statement, and I quote: “The light east airflow that night would have caused subsidence warming, just the opposite of an inversion, as claimed by the Air Force.”

(26:59) This is Betty’s dress. It underwent scientific analysis. It has several times. The first time was in 1977. No one either had the laboratory or the desire to examine the dress before that. Betty had placed it in her closet. The next time she removed it, knowing that it had to be repaired, it was coated with a pink powdery substance that had degraded the fabric itself, the fiber; it had destroyed that dress, reduced it to a rag. And I had shown you this before. This is how the dress was torn from waist to hemline, and the hem was torn down here. Somebody decided to cut a huge swatch out of it, right there, one of the laboratories, I suppose. They’ve always asked for small swatches from me. Betty under hypnosis, remembered that this occurred when she was fighting. She didn’t want to be taken onto that craft. Remember this hadn’t… we weren’t aware that this had ever happened to anyone before. She didn’t know if she was going to be flown off to a distant planet, if she was going to become a specimen; she was fighting for her life, and she gave one of those ET escorts a good swift kick.

(28:22) The University of Cincinnati did a very extensive analysis on Betty’s dress. And this is just one sentence out of their report. They said, “The pink is strange in relationship to its inorganic elemental compound, and its high inorganic hydrocarbons.” They also attempted to make the dress turn pink. They exposed it to ultraviolet light, to different types of light, to different chemicals; nothing they did could produce the effect on Betty’s dress.

In the year 2000 the Pinelandia Biophysic[al] Laboratory did an assay test using growing seedlings. And what they did is they took some of the pink part of Betty’s dress, and they ground it up, and then they took some of the part that was still blue, and they ground that up, and they put each one into a beaker of water, and then they used just plain water. And so they had these seedlings ,all the same soil, all the same, but they watered some with the pink, some with the blue, and some with plain water. What they discovered is the seedlings that were watered with the pink substance grew at an extraordinarily fast rate, highly unusual.

And then from 2001 until 2003 Phyllis Budinger, who is a chemist who works for MUFON, she’s retired now. She worked for 35 years for BP/Amoco, formally Standard Oil at the top of her field; it was her job to analyze difficult substances to determine what they were. Her chemical analysis supported Betty’s account of the events. What she discovered is that the parts of Betty’s dress that were most saturated with that pink powder are the areas where Betty remembered the ETs had actually touched her dress when they were escorting her, when they were removing that dress. She said that the stained areas were coated with a biological material of mostly protein and a small amount of natural oil. That it was the protein that attacked the fiber and dye in the stained area and broke down the fiber structure, and that it came from an external source, not from Betty.

(31:00)  Since then, and more recently, I have talked to a man who is an academic, who has a doctorate in his field, and he said to me, “I know what happened to Betty’s dress.” He said, “It was exposed to ultraviolet light that killed the bacteria and the viruses on that dress.” But he said, “I think that these ETs had yeast on their hands, and yeast will transfer.” And he thinks it was yeast that transferred from these ETs hands onto Betty’s dress and then grew on her dress. Phyllis Budinger thinks, well, it could be yeast, but it might also be fungus. We know that Betty’s dog, who was with her that night, developed a fungus infection on her back right after this event.

(32:02) Well, there was also consistent hypnotic recall of a CE4 in correlating detail in Betty’s and Barney’s case, that was not in Betty’s dreams. I did this comparative analysis by transcribing first the hypnosis tapes, and then by lining up sentence-by-sentence, every part of this trip. The hypnosis tape started when Betty and Barney left Niagara Falls (well, actually when they were preparing to go on the trip), then when they left Niagara Falls, then their day in Montreal, then their trip back leading up to the point where they were abducted. I studied the patterns in their speech, the way they explained things. I was looking to find out if Betty had only repeated a series of five dreams that she had 10 days, starting 10 days after the event, and lasting for five nights. It was actually early morning hours, just before she woke up. Could Betty have relived this under hypnosis? Possible. Could she have somehow communicated some of this information to Barney? He was saying, “Betty, don’t bother me. Don’t bother me. I don’t want to hear about that. It’s nonsense. It’s only dreams. Don’t let it get to you.”  He didn’t hear all of the information in those dreams. That’s what I found out later.

I wanted to know if he could have absorbed some of that information from Betty’s dreams and confabulated under hypnosis. We know that it’s easy to confabulate under hypnosis, and that’s why it’s not very reliable when only one person is hypnotized. It used to be admissible in a court of law forensic hypnosis, it is no longer admissible in a court of law; it’s fallen out of favor.  But when you have two or more individuals who had the same experience, and they have amnesia for that experience, and they’re hypnotized separately, and amnesia is imposed at the end of each hypnosis session–so there’s no way they can compare notes–to me, that is pretty good evidence. And that is what I was looking for in the case of Betty and Barney Hill.

(34:32)  I am going to show you two examples today. I’ve written about it extensively in Captured: The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience. But when Betty and Barney were abducted, when their car was actually stopped, they found themselves in a new area. They didn’t know how they had gotten there. There were tall trees all around. They weren’t on the road they had been on. There was no way that they could simply have turned off accidentally, and then they had this experience where there were men in the road. In Betty’s dreams, she stated, “I saw eight to 11 men standing in the road. The men surrounded the car. We sat motionless.” She also said they were silenced. That was not what I found. Betty and Barney stated under hypnosis. Each of them stated that there were men in the road, but they divided into two groups of three. Three went to Barney’s side. Three went to Betty’s side. Two stood back. That’s what happened under hypnosis.

In Betty’s dream, they sat silently. That’s not what happened under hypnosis. They were talking to each other, Betty and Barney. They were saying, “what’s going on? Is this an accident up ahead?” And then they saw these creatures walking toward them, these non-humans. And Barney said to Betty, “I think it’s them. I think it’s the ones I saw when I was standing in the field with these binoculars.”  And Betty became terrified. She opened the car door; she was going to run and hide in the woods, and they intercepted her at that time. Barney thought about going for his gun, but he decided against that. He thought he might be harmed if he did. He put his foot on the ground, and he was then taken from the vehicle. So, this is pretty good evidence that this was a real event. They were not simply reliving dreams that Betty had. They were giving information that correlated, in detail, but was different from Betty’s dreams.

(37:00)  Another section that I looked at that I’ll talk to you about today is their release from capture. Well, in Betty’s dreams, and I’ll read this to you, she said, “We left the ship and we walked through the woods. All the men accompanied us. The leader suggested that we wait and see them leave. We agreed.” Not what happened under hypnosis. Barney was taken down by himself. He was placed into the driver’s seat, and he actually sat on his gun when he sat down; it wasn’t in Betty’s dreams. Betty was taken down later. She was arguing that she wanted a piece of evidence to take with her, and she didn’t go right away. So, they returned separately. And then Betty came down the path, and then they did watch the vehicle leave together.

Well, there was also a star map that Betty remembered under hypnosis, that she sketched and a brilliant woman from Ohio did the research on that. It took her many, many years. It was difficult because she didn’t – she couldn’t – photocopy information back then. She had to hand copy all of it. She couldn’t take the catalogs out of the library. She couldn’t order these catalogs. She had to go to the university, and she had to sit down, and she had to actually copy the distance data. And then she went home, and she built three dimensional models, not one model. She built 26 of these models, putting all of these stars in their proper location in our local galactic neighborhood. In the beginning, she thought there would be many matches. In the end, there was only one, and it took many years to find that, because the distance data was not right for three of those stars; we didn’t know about them when Betty had this experience. But then a new catalog was published, there was new distance data, and Marjorie, at that point, had a match. This is our sun right up here. And she believed that these ETs came from Zeta Reticuli, the largest stars on Betty’s map.

(39:40) I’m not going to go into a lot of detail about this. Stanton Friedman has spoken extensively about it, written about it. He’s written two chapters in Captured about this star map. But something extraordinary about this, is that all of the pattern stars on that map, on Betty’s map, were sun like stars. That’s what Marjorie discovered. Although only 5% of the 1,000 stars in our local galactic neighborhood, out 54 light years are sun-like; and all of the sun-like stars in that volume of space were on the map in the pattern. This was quite extraordinary. It convinced a lot of scientists that this was a real case, that this had really happened.

Betty had also observed symbols on that craft – in this what she called a book – it was more like what I think of today as a tablet, and these are Betty’s symbols she sketched for me in the year 2000. I took them and I put them in my locked file cabinet, and then they were published for the first time in my book with Stanton. And Dr Don C Dondere, who is now a retired professor from McGill University, took an interest in this because he had done an alien symbol academic research project on some of Bud Hopkins’ experiencers. And these are just a few of the symbols that he had from Bud’s experiencers. There were many more. He had two groups of graduate students who participated, too, who had never had experiences. These were his control groups. And what he discovered was that Bud’s experiencers drew symbols that were very similar, but they were different than what the graduate students had sketched from imagination; but there was a lot of similarity between Bud’s symbols, or is his experiencer’s symbols, and what Betty had sketched here, his statement was the symbols Betty remembered and that were published for the first time in 2007 look remarkably like many of the symbols that Hopkins had been collecting from abductees since 1975.  We also see repeated patterns in modern contact, and this is what I was talking about when I was talking about commonalities.

(42:23) One thing we discovered is that there aren’t many new abductions. Betty and Barney’s case was a dream case for any investigator, because there was so much evidence that could be collected and evaluated in a laboratory. We don’t find that much anymore. Many people are not taken from their vehicle. For the first time in the commonality study we did, we found that about 50% had actually been outside at some point when they were taken; they had a close encounter with a craft. They might have observed non-human entities, but then they were taken from their homes, oftentimes when they were sleeping. How do you get evidence for that? That’s not an easy case to investigate if someone is sleeping and has just returned. But it seems that these abductions are generational, and if the parent was taken, then the child is taken, and then that child’s child is taken, and some of these individuals are taken from their cribs, it appears for the first time. So, it’s a different kind of scenario than we had with Betty and Barney. They tend to occur over and over again, throughout a lifetime, generally once or twice a year.

Now the old news was that it probably stopped after you ended your reproductive years, because that was the purpose. We find that that’s not happening today. People into their fifties, their sixties, their seventies, are still being visited periodically, and it appears to be, from my research and information I’ve received, it’s kind of an upgrade for the human body, and it might have to do with being taken into an alien environment over and over again, being passed through a solid surface over and over again. It does some bad things to the human body, I believe, from the medical information that I’ve received.

(44:43)  Most people said that it was somewhat traumatic for them when they were taken. Most didn’t ask for this experience. These are people who participated in my research project. Most requested confidentiality; but I found that thousands of people from around the world are reporting the same thing, in detail; and there are some details I don’t share with the public. And that is because if somebody gives me this information, I know they didn’t read it somewhere, and it’s another little piece of evidence.

Who are the experiencers who are taken? I’ve spoken to military pilots, military officers, commercial pilots, commercial fishermen, oil field workers, housewives, artists, secretaries, you name it, even astronomers, under the condition of confidentiality.  Who’s doing the abducting? This is what I’ve been able to put together. This is David Baker’s drawing from Betty’s and Barney’s experience. This is my drawing, based upon Betty’s and Barney’s written descriptions of what they saw. This is more what like what Travis Walton saw, you might think when he was met by the human types on the craft. And some individuals – many individuals – are reporting these Nordic types of beings, the reptilian types, and then the insectoid type, which is a little more prevalent, I’m finding, than the reptilian type, but not, not in huge numbers.

How does it happen? Well, I’ve already talked about this, but you can look at the pictures; they seem to be taking people from their homes. Now there is mind-to-mind communication. Rarely do we find anyone reporting that they’ve talked to these ETs using their mouths. And there’s something I want to make clear. If any of you have seen Betty Hill’s “Lost Tapes,” she says on those tapes, “Well, we just talk to each other the way I talk to other humans.” Not true. That was part of Betty’s dream. That’s not what Betty said under hypnosis, that’s not what Barney said. They understood what these beings were communicating to them, but it appeared to be telepathic communication. I have the quotes. I didn’t put them into this presentation, but if you want to read those quotes. I have them. I will send them to you. It’s mind-to-mind communication.

(47:42) So often these entities will put their eyes right in front of yours, and you will experience a profound feeling of love being directed at you. You will be told that you’re part of their family. You will be told that they love you, that they have no intention of harming you. That’s what I’m finding over and over again, although the human perception is that they’re terribly frightened and they think that this is a horrible experience at first; once they work through it, most people changed their mind about this.

We found that 88% of the people who participated in our study had conscious recall of part of the event. 67% saw the craft at less than 1,000 feet. 51% believed that they had been taken more than ten times. 

What you have right here is a sketch from the Jenny Henderson case. And this is just something I put together to illustrate what happened to her. I wrote about that in the book. I don’t have time to present that today for you. But she, like so many others, are taken on what appears to be some kind of tractor beam taken through a solid surface. I’ve spoken to physicists about this. I said, “Is this even possible?” They say “Yes, and we’ve done it on a very small scale in a laboratory.” You have to remember that 99.9% of the atom is empty space, and it is a matter of lining up frequency and phase, because theoretically, everything vibrates at a frequency. So, if we can get this frequency in the phase together, then matter can penetrate matter.

(49:49) I found that the primary goal for this seems to be reproductive and emotional experience. Many, many people throughout the years are receiving messages that these ETs are concerned about the planet Earth. They’re concerned that we’re destroying our planet. And this is what they gave one experiencer for information. They say that they’re scientists with a job to do. They certainly don’t understand we don’t understand why we’re taken but no harm is being done to us, they say; it’s part of their program. They’re following their orders. They’re just working for a larger program, they say. And there are responsibilities that they have to carry out. Thank you.

Shannon McMenamin:

Next week on The B-side, we’ll play another recording from the archives! 

You’ll hear from Pulitzer Prize finalist, Garrett Graff. He manages to sow the seeds of doubt for even the staunchest skeptics by explaining why “math is on the side of the aliens.”

Hope to see you this year at McMenamins’ 25th Annual UFO Festival, May 16th and 17th at Hotel Oregon in McMinnville!

I’m Shannon McMenamin.  Thanks for listening to The Red Shed Tapes, B-Side.

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The Red Shed Tapes, B-side is written and produced by McMenamins and Gretchen Kilby.

Sound editing by Gretchen Kilby.

Introduction & editing by Michelle “Jake” Robbins.

McMenamins’ production team includes Kat Nyberg, Michelle “Jake” Robbins, and Renee Rank Ignacio.

UFOfest A/V Engineer is Rand Deahl. 

UFOfest archival audio and video by Kat Nyberg and Patrick Chapman.

Our podcast theme music was composed by Jim Brunberg & Ben Landsverk at Wonderly. 

Podcast artwork is by Lillian Ripley.

You can get in touch with us here at The Red Shed Tapes by emailing podcast@mcmenamins.com.

The complete version of the presentation you heard today is available on YouTube.

Learn more about McMenamins UFO Festival at ufofest.com